J.C : Glenn, how did you first become involved in Silat?
G.L : I first trained with Jak Othman for a couple of years in Gayong and then for about the same length of time with Richard Debordes. It was at the world championships in Malaysia that I was first introduced to the Lincah style. I was looked after by a couple of guys, Johari Jantan and Basir Hassan who basically fed me, gave me a bed and taught me about the various Malay customs. The Lincah people were providing the security for the world championships and I was impressed by the fact that they did all this for me. I stayed in Jo’s house and started learning Lincah.

J.C : Silat is performed in Malaysia. How does that vary from the tourist guide books in Malaysia on describing silat as more dance than functional martial art?G.L. The way the Indonesians and Malaysians do it is different. The Indonesians when they fight they sort of dance around and wave their arms about, when they then go into fight they look like kick boxers, especially in the competitions. Malaysian silat all the dancey stuff actually has applications. You can make it dance, you can mess around with it, but it actually has a function. But what you do, you soften it, so instead of putting out the fist which you would do in training, in a wedding situation what you’d do is, you have an open hand, so you’re looking less aggressive. So instead of going like with a hard block you’re going with a soft block. Let me just smooth it out, make it smoother, prettier, put a flower in it, open your hands out and dance around. There are styles of silat that are predominantly dance, in Malaysia they describe three styles, or three types of silat, OK. You have Pukulan, Jatohan and Tari. Pukulan is striking, Jatohan is the throwing and sweeping and that sort of stuff and the Tari is the dance. So you get the differences there. The Tari is what you do in the weddings. Every style has a combination of those three, to varying degrees, so you have styles that will punch and kick a lot, they don’t do a lot of throwing, but they all have a bit of dance. There are styles that are 98% dance but have a bit of actual hitting and kicking and a bit of actual locking and throwing. Lincah is a Pukulan style, it’s a striking style. So saying it’s got some of the nastiest locks I’ve seen. The Gayong that I’ve learnt is a combination of striking and locking. The Pukulan Madura is 99% striking.

J.C : Who was your first silat trainer?
G.L. The first guy I trained with - Jak Othman did Pancasila Gayong Harimau that’s what he called it. It was a silat Gayong derivative.

The reason I first went to Malaysia was for the ‘87 world championships, and Jak because he was in Malaysia arranged for a team from Britain to enter the 87 championships. I was appointed as the British representative for Jak and effectively therefore for Silat in Britain. I looked after the teams out there, there were 6 or 7 of us that went out, one girl who lived in Indonesia, and five who were Jak’s students. That’s when I first started learning Lincah.

J.C : What was it in particular that attracted you to Lincah?
G.L : I think Lincah is a very good combat style, but the reason I stayed with it is because of the people......humility, honour, respect, dignity, loyalty, brotherhood, friendship. That is what I understand Silat is about and that is what these people showed me. Most people in the silat organisations talk about these tenets, but don’t practice it. Lincah and the people in the Pukulan Madura showed me that it can be done.

J.C : How does the style compare to the other forms of Silat that you do?
G.L : It’s very different, but they have the same basic principles. The three main styles I do are Lincah, Gayung and Pukulan and I have found that all three of them complement one another and they all teach me something about the next. The Gayung helps me with the Lincah, Lincah helps me with the Gayung and Pukulan helps me with both. I’m very happy with the four styles that I’ve got because they all have the same basic principle of movement and life.

J.C : When did you first meet the Maha Guru of Lincah?
G.L : About two years later, I think it was 1989. I had been over there training a couple of times, but in Maylasia you were not allowed to teach Lincah to non-Muslims. I am non-Malay and non-Muslim. It was actually in their constitution that they can’t do this and the only man who can change it is Maha Guru. Jo and Basir took me to see Maha Guru to ask his permission and blessing to teach me. He said that if I came back and showed that I was keen he would actually take over my tuition. Since 1992 I’ve been staying with him learning more about Silat, including the spiritual side.

J.C : how did you first meet Maha Guru Silat Lincah?
G.L.: The first couple of times I went over there I was being taught, but my teachers, Johari Jantan and Basir Hassan were concerned that they were breaking the constitution by so doing. They eventually said if you want to learn any more what you’re gonna have to do is go and see Maha Guru, and get his permission and blessing for it. So they took me along to see him Everyone was a bit nervous about it. He looked at my legs and said ‘good, good strong legs’ and I thought that’s a bit strange but as long as he’s not going to barbecue them it’s all right. He said that I’d proven that I was interested and if I came over a few more times and show my dedication then he’d take me on as his personal student. So I went back a few more times and he said ‘next time you come, come and stay in my house’ and I thought, "Nice, but I didn’t believe it". But later when the 92 World Championships were on his son met Chris, a student of mine from Belgium, and I at the airport and took me to his house. We stayed there, that’s when I started my serious training.

J.C : What are your impressions of Maha Guru?
G.L : Amazing man. Very powerful with great presence and charisma. He’s not always been the most popular of people but I don’t think that bothers him. He has been Maha Guru of Lincah since the 60's. He took Lincah from a village style to the largest association of Silat in Malaysia. There are now over three quarters of a million people who have done Lincah. I think he is a man who stands by what he believes and does what he says he is going to do, and comes across to me as a man of great integrity and honour.

J.C : What is your position at present in silat?
G.L. I am the Chief instructor for Silat Lincah outside Malaysia, and one of the highest graded instructors in Lincah. As there are very few Malaysian silat stylists out of Malaysia, this probably makes me the highest graded Malaysian silat practitioner outside Malaysia.

J.C : How did you get the title Wakil Maha Guru?
G.L. I printed off some business cards here, that’s the truth, but I thought I couldn’t just put ‘instructor’ because I want to set up an organisation here, that’s what they want me to do, so I put ‘chief instructor’ on it., because I am the chief instructor for Silat Lincah in Great Britain. I am the only one teaching it so, I am the chief instructor. I showed him the badge that I’d created for my club here. I didn’t have many badges for Lincah, just 8 or 10 of them, so basically if I get a class of 20 people I can’t give them all Lincah badges. Getting the badges from Malaysia becomes impractical, because the Malaysian postal system doesn’t work very well, so I thought I would create a badge here that fits with all the things that I do, all the styles that I’ve done, pays respects to all the different people with whom I’ve trained. So I’ve got the badge, got some business cards made up because people ask me for my address at competitions, and I’ve been giving them my osteopathic cards and people think ‘what’s this?’, so I put a card together and I had chief instructor put on the top of it. Anyway I gave Maha Guru a card and when he tapped it I though, "oh oh I’m about to die here", and he said “No chief instructor is not right. This means you’re on the same level as Ketua Jurulatih Malaysia- chief instructor for Malaysia but you are higher than him, so you’re not chief instructor you’re my Wakil”. I said “Great, but what is that exactly?”. He said you’re the representative of the Maha Guru. What it means is that wherever I go I represent the Maha Guru: if I speak I speak for the Maha guru, and with his Authority. If he is not present, then I represent and have the authority of the Maha Guru. That goes for what I’m doing in Europe, I do it with the authority and the blessing of Maha Guru Silat Lincah.

J.C : What is the actual history of the Lincah style?
G.L : The last time I was in Malaysia, Maha Guru told me how Lincah came from Silat Tarah, Maha Guru is effectively a student of Silat Tarah. Before the Maha Guru of Silat Tarah died he said that he would take Tarah to his grave with him, and he told Maha Guru that he will be Lincah. The name and association of Lincah was formed 30 years ago, although it is actually a very old style of silat